The Arminian Atheist

HailZeon57 diyorki:

Sep 13, 2008 - The length of something has nothing to do with anything; it's about what the verse says. You are redefining words, taking them out of context, and exaggerating the meaning of the words to the extreme. Look at Romans 5:6 "You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, CHRIST DIED FOR THE UNGODLY" It doesn't get much clearer than that.

NomosCharis diyorki:

Sep 13, 2008 - The elect are the "ungodly" for whom Christ died.

NomosCharis diyorki:

Sep 13, 2008 - "So we just stop obeying the law cause we can't do it anyways?" Stop obeying it? When did we ever obey it? Please tell me a time when you have ever actually obeyed the law of God. "...there is none that doeth good, no, not one" Romans 3:12b; "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says... that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God" 3:19. Good works are done, but never by virtue of our free-will; it is by God's power and for his glory alone.

NomosCharis diyorki:

Sep 13, 2008 - Remember, with respect to the ability of our "free will" we are not discussing what it can do with God's help. Rather we are discussing what power free will has to choose good without God's help, for if God cannot, or will not, make it choose good, then it must do so by itself without the help of God. If you argue that men can do good only if God helps them, then you are talking about what God does, not what men do, and you make the point for Calvinism, not free will.

HailZeon57 diyorki:

Sep 13, 2008 - No. Then it would have said, "Christ died for the elect". The ungodly includes everyone, elect and unbelievers alike. It's just that the elect believe this and believe in the Lord while the unbelievers don't accept that Jesus died for them, unless they are converted.

HailZeon57 diyorki:

Sep 13, 2008 - "Stop obeying it? When did we ever obey it? Please tell me a time when you have ever actually obeyed the law of God." We have never truly obeyed every commandment, but that doesn't mean we don't try to obey them. We should strive to be holy. (1 Peter 1:16) "it is by God's power and for his glory alone." So good works are never done from the heart? How are we supposed to show that we love God if we are just being controlled by God to do good works like puppets? God gave us free will to choose.

HailZeon57 diyorki:

Sep 13, 2008 - I am saying that man does good works from the heart, to glorify God. The widow that put those two coins into the treasury out of love for God, not because God was controlling her. I am not making a point for Calvinism in any way.

NomosCharis diyorki:

Sep 14, 2008 - Verses 8-10 clarify who "the ungodly" are for whom Christ died; it is those who "will be saved from wrath through him." Those who will not be saved are not included.

NomosCharis diyorki:

Sep 14, 2008 - Good works must be done from the heart, but they never are done from the sinner's heart, so God changes men's hearts and does good works through them by the Holy Spirit. Eze 36:26-27, "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."

fishboi87 diyorki:

Sep 14, 2008 - So let me get this straight, your telling me that god has the power to justify but not sanctify, he just justifys and then its up to you if you want to cooperate being sanctified? NO! he who began a good work will finish it, why? because his name is at stake. If he has justified you he will sanctify.

HailZeon57 diyorki:

Sep 16, 2008 - God does both. God has sanctified all believers but not unbelievers. However, this does not mean that Jesus didn't die for all. That's another topic. We do good works to praise God. An unbeliever cannot do this.

HailZeon57 diyorki:

Sep 16, 2008 - We are still all sinners, even though Jesus died for us. Just because we are sinners doesn't mean we don't have a sinful heart. Our old Adam still persists. Remember, our sinful mind and heart tempt us along with satan. Sin is practically hardwired into us. Jesus has forgiven those sins, but that doesn't mean that we automatically stop siniing; we still do.

NomosCharis diyorki:

Sep 16, 2008 - Does God have the power to make us stop sinning and walk in righteousness, or not? If he forgives sinners he must cause them to walk in righteousness, or else they will not be fit for heaven. Will we be sinning in heaven? Yes, or no? I know that Christians still sin here, but that is not because God cannot keep them from doing so. God has reasons for allowing us to sin, but this does not mean that he will ever allow his children to ultimately fall completely away.

fishboi87 diyorki:

Sep 17, 2008 - Well in order to sanctify he must justify first. Jesus couldnt die for all. It doesnt make sense if you think about it. How can Jesus die for everyone if all they need to do is accept him, when the bible calls us all haters of god? For what reason did jesus die if no one will ever accept him? the false doctrine of free will doesnt answer this question because man will is governed by his wicked nature, he neither wants him nor seeks him as fights against gods will with all his might.

fishboi87 diyorki:

Sep 17, 2008 - he doesnt give us the power to stop from ever sinning again but he does destroy our bondage to a lifestyle of sin and gives us the ability to live a life that conforms to the will of god and comforms the person into the image of his son. The believer is also sesitive to the sin in his/her life, and when they sin it breaks them and leads them to confession. A perso with a broken heart and a contrite spirit is the one god will never despise.

NomosCharis diyorki:

Sep 17, 2008 - "he doesnt give us the power to stop from ever sinning again" In heaven he will. He does not now while we are here, true, but that is not because he could not do so if he wished. The most important thing we should understand is that God has promised that those who believe in Christ will never fall away and be lost (John 5:24; 10:28).

fishboi87 diyorki:

Sep 18, 2008 - amen!

HailZeon57 diyorki:

Sep 20, 2008 - Correction, no one can accept Jesus as their savior. Only through the Holy Spirit, through Gods Word, can someone be brought to God. "the false doctrine of free will" It is not false doctrine, it is reality and almost every scholar and theologian will disagree with you. When people are called to faith by the Holy Spirit, they can either believe or reject the Lord. That is free will and denying that is like denying the law of gravity.

fishboi87 diyorki:

Sep 20, 2008 - So umm, when jesus called his disciple did he give them a choice to choose to follow him, or did he say "follow me" and imediately they left behind everything and follow him?

HailZeon57 diyorki:

Sep 20, 2008 - In Matthew 4:19, Jesus says "Come, follow me, and I will make you fishers of men". This wasn't a command, it was an offer. Through the power of the Holy Spirit, the disciples accepted this offer. It was not a command.

fishboi87 diyorki:

Sep 21, 2008 - sir that was no offer, but a command he said "COME, FOLLOW ME, and I WILL make you fishers of men." there is no hint of offer in that verse.

HailZeon57 diyorki:

Sep 24, 2008 - It is indeed an offer. If I said, "Hey, help me with this and I'll give a candy bar", would that be a command, or an offer? Anyways, it appears that neither of us are being swayed by each others arguments. Nice talking to you.

bberchin diyorki:

Sep 24, 2008 - Be careful, Andrew, Jesus's statement there is not an offer and a reward for obedience. Wouldn't that be works based?? Your example says, do this and you'll get that. Christ's statement says, do this and watch me glorify Myself through you. Those guys didn't see giving up there livelyhood to follow Christ as an opportunity for acclaim and accomplishment- they were called.

masterowa diyorki:

Oct 6, 2008 - if we are God haters how can we make a choice towards HS without prior work of regeneration in us?

masterowa diyorki:

Oct 7, 2008 - Jesus said that only those drawn by God will come to him. The question is: can someone drawn by God not come as a freewill choice? No, because Jesus said ALL that Father gives me will come.